HENRY ROLLINS - Nobody
Words by: Tom Wilson @thetomwilsonexperiment - Sense Music Media | Tuesday 7th March 2023
Press Pics by: Ross Halfin @rosshalfin
“I’m nobody from nowhere.”
I hate introducing Henry Rollins. Where the hell do you start? At 62, he has travelled further and done more than most people could accomplish in three lifetimes. BLACK FLAG. ROLLINS BAND. Spoken word. Movies. Books. TV. The man born Henry Garfield has been grinding away in the public eye since he was 19, and that insatiable work ethic is once again bringing him to our shores, as part of an exhaustive spoken word tour taking him through regional areas and major cities. His essay Iron & The Soul changed my life, so it is my absolute pleasure to bring you this interview with one of my favourite people on the planet, as we tee off on cancel culture, THE MARK OF CAIN, COVID and more…
We’re living in a period of rapid social and political change, particularly in the last decade, where people’s past actions are being scrutinised more than they were before. As someone who has lived in the public eye for decades, what are your feelings about “cancel culture”? Have you found yourself in the position where you’ve had to separate an artist from their art?
I think there’s more than one way to consider cancel culture. Hopefully, I won’t sound too hypocritical. When comedians complain they feel censored because of the supposed strictures of political correctness and fear cancel culture shutting them down, I wonder if it’s just a lot of people who don’t think “jokes” about large people, LGBTQ people, women people, “minority” people are funny and have simply evolved socially and none of that material is to their liking. Maybe these comedians should read the room. Then there’s someone who said something poorly thought out twenty years ago and it’s on tape and it’s played in the present and they get their career destroyed. I think that’s not good. I think one should go case by case. Humans are complex creatures. They do and say things for all kinds of reasons. It is perhaps unfair to judge someone without the context around what was said or done. I think people should be allowed to make mistakes, learn from them, grow, evolve, better themselves, without having to be tied to their past so permanently.
You’ve spoken onstage about the affinity you feel for younger people, who are growing up in a drastically different world than you did. How do you think you would fare if you were growing up these days, in the age of social media? How do you think life would be different?
I would say I’m concerned and feel empathy for young people. I don’t want to hang out with them as I’ve already been there and I’d only slow them down. In a way I did grow up in somewhat similar circumstances in that young people are constantly surveilled, judged and often reviewed online by their peers via platforms and social media. I’ve been in front of cameras and quoted by media outlets since I was 19. I’m 62. I have no memory of having a private life or not being recognised multiple times a day if I’m out in the world. Believe it or not, I don’t know how Facebook works, what it does and what the appeal of social media is. I’m for the most part a solitary person since I can remember. If I was 18 today, I might just be doing what I was doing forty some years ago: working jobs, listening to music, trying to get by. I think the biggest difference from when I was young to now is of course the technology that’s such a part of Western life. There might not be as much mystery for a young person now as there was for me simply by the fact I didn’t have a lightning speed computer in my pocket and the awareness that many things can be found by using it. I had a lot of “when thirsty, hike to the well and get a drink” moments as a young person as there was no internet. I wonder of a young person’s access to almost unlimited information helps them evolve or infantilises them, or a bit of both.
This year, THE MARK OF CAIN will be touring a slightly delayed 25th anniversary tour for Ill At Ease. What are some of your memories of recording this album? And how likely would you say it is that you might work with them again? What would it take?
I did the mix. I remember I thought the songs were incredibly strong, some of John’s best material. As soon as I got into the tracks, I knew the engineer and I were going to have to do a lot of work on the drum sounds, especially the snare. Also, the songs were structured with a lot of dynamics that had to be brought out. We had a manual board, so we had to write down all of the fades and pans we wanted to do. It was myself, the engineer and his second, who only had use of one hand. We’d do these crazy five-handed active mixes of songs like Pointman and The Contender, yelling out instructions as we went. We actually got it done rather well I thought. Every evening the Scott brothers would come into the studio to hear our final mixes and give us their notes. They seemed to like it. I think it’s an excellent record. I reckon if you call me in to mix your record, you’ve run out of options. I’ve made a lot of records for people but honestly, it’s nerve wracking and it’s nothing I’d ever want to do any more of.
Almost no ROLLINS BAND music is available on streaming in Australia. Was this a conscious decision, or more of a legal one? Is this something that you can see changing in the future?
I don’t like streaming services and have kept my music off of the platforms for years. We’ve now relented in some cases but I still don’t think it’s a good thing.
One of my favourite Teeing Off segments of The Henry Rollins Show was you talking about people outraged that music like THE STOOGES was being used in commercials. You did an ad for Calvin Klein years ago. Was this purely a paid gig, or was their extra motivation in knowing you’d be outraging those who love to accuse people of “selling out”?
I think it’s absolutely great to hear a BUZZCOCKS track or even THE FALL on a commercial. It’s some of the only money that band might see and if the music is good, why not? I also think it’s subversive and funny. I did Gap ads way before I did the thing for Calvin Klein. They came to me and said they had selected people who they thought were bringing ideas and debate out and I was one of the people they wanted to feature for their global provocateurs campaign. I use their shirts onstage almost every night. I have for decades. I had a great afternoon with them. I got some free t-shirts and excellent hate mail about how huge images of me were on the sides of buildings in New York City. I’d write back, expressing I hoped the lighting was good. I come from the American middle class. I went from high school into the minimum wage working world, into music. I’m nobody from nowhere. I’m still “that guy.” All this kind of thing is a blast and I don’t at all take it or myself seriously. I’d do all of that again.
COVID was a hard time for everyone, and I remember saying to my wife that I worried about you, given how much joy you get from constantly travelling for work. How did you keep on top of your mental health during this period?
I quickly accepted the new limitations and immediately changed my goals and workflow. I couldn’t travel so I did what I could out of my house. Lots of writing, editing, scanning, researching. Voice work for several animation projects for Netflix, Cartoon Channel, Nickelodeon and others. Worked on material for upcoming shows in the chance the global anti-science gang would allow me to go on tour again, and started working on the structure of an idea, now years along, that’s easily the biggest project I’ve ever tried to pull off. I’ve got an amazing team around me and we’re well into it. I did my best not to let millions of science-fearing villagers worldwide slow me down.
You’ve spent a lot of time in Australia over the years, and in Live in the Conversation Pit (circa 2005) you said that if you ever got kicked out of America, you’d move here. What do you like most about this country, and why? And if you had to move here, what part of the country would you most like to call home?
There’s a lot to like about Australia for a foreigner like me. Perhaps I see the country from tinted glasses and living there would make me all too well aware of aspects I didn’t find all that appealing. I think this might be the case of anyone settling in anywhere. Visiting the USA is one thing. Living there, quite another. I like the flora and fauna of Australia. The food, the music, the people, at least the ones I’ve met. If I had that big time Calvin Klein money, I’d like to have a place in Melbourne. I think that’s a really cool city. I always look forward to going to Australia and feel bad when the tour is over.
I’m a recovering alcoholic, and in March I’ll be five years sober. Physical fitness and creative hobbies (like getting back into music journalism) was a key part of my recovery and mental health. You’ve spoken often about how you see working out as an anti-depressant. What advice would you give someone who is struggling to cope with life due to addiction issues and poor mental health?
I’m not a doctor or trained in anything, so all I can do is suggest from a good natured attempt at helping. Physical fitness can do a lot for your mental health. To get your body moving, sweating, to get an appetite from caloric expenditure, rather than just hours since your last meal, exhaustion from exertion rather than just being up for many hours, can make you see your body is a high-performance machine. Good diet can have a huge effect on mood, self-esteem, energy, sleep, clarity and so many other aspects of your life. We are an extremely complex species. It’s amazing we get through the day with as few screw ups as we do. This being the case, I think a careful consideration of what you do, what you eat, hydration, sleep, level of activity, should all be considered. You might surprise yourself as to how much more you’re capable of than you think. I can totally understand someone feeling down on themselves. Some of that might be due to the fact they’ve not invested enough time in themselves and tapped even a small part of their potential. None of this is easy, of course and it’s not change that happens overnight but you can change your life quite a bit by decision and action. More than you might think. I would suggest all these ideas but I would beg, literally beg, for people to not self-harm. The human world is harsh and we often get less than a fair deal but to turn on yourself is not the way forward.
Henry Rollins is touring nationally in June/July. Tickets for all shows are available here.