THE SOUL MOVERS - It’s Evolution Baby!
Interview with Guitarist & Former Red WIGGLE Murray Cook
If you were a kid in the 90s, you know damn well who Murray Cook is. He was once described as the most influential guitarist in Australia (by virtue of the fact that, as a member of world-beating children’s group THE WIGGLES, he was the first guitar player a lot of people over 20 ever heard). The tall and notoriously pleasant guitarist has kept busy since hanging up the red skivvy in 2012, joining THE SOUL MOVERS alongside Lizzie Mack, Marko Simec, Luke Herbert, Tony Mitchell and Matt Crawford. The group has just released their third album Evolution, and Murray spoke to us from Sydney about how none of this would’ve happened if it wasn’t for SHERBET …
Pictured: Matt Crawford, Tony Mitchell, Murray Cook, Marko Simec, Lizzie Mack + Luke Herbert - THE SOUL MOVERS
Photographer: Dani Hansen
2020 was big for a lot of people, but you guys started off quite dramatically with what happened with Greg [Page – original yellow Wiggle] on stage, and that, I feel, kind of inspired the Circles Baby video…
It did, really. THE WIGGLES did a couple of days at the Castle Hill RSL … the original WIGGLES, doing songs for grown-ups. THE SOUL MOVERS were on the bill as well, so I was doing double-duty, which was some kind of fun. On the first night, Greg had a heart attack, and it was very distressing for all of us, because he almost didn’t survive. It was kind of Lizzie [Mack – SOUL MOVERS singer]’s idea for Circles Baby, because it was a fairly uplifting song anyway, so it was her idea … It was also the early days of COVID, so everyone was in a pretty bad sort of way emotionally, not knowing what the future would bring, so we just wanted to put something out that was fun and inspiring, and also to show the world that Greg was OK, and that he was recovering really well. Then the other boys got involved as well, so it was another reunion, which was really nice.
I remember watching it, and he was starting to break a sweat, and I was thinking, “Greg, slow down!” [Laughs]
Well that’s right. We were encouraging him to take it a bit easy, which he did, but he actually did more than we thought he was going to do. He monitors it pretty closely – he’s pretty aware of his own limits these days … probably not so much on the night that [his] heart attack happened!
How did you keep sane throughout COVID?
Just working on stuff for THE SOUL MOVERS. Lizzie and I were writing a fair bit. We did a show in Queensland – a drive-in show at Redlands Showground. That was a bit weird, but kind of fun. We did a few online shows, but mostly writing, and then when things opened up a little bit more, we got together with Garth Porter [of SHERBET] and wrote some more stuff, and then recorded the album Evolution. Once we got to that point, that was fine … that was over a couple of months that we did that, and then things started to open up again. It was a pretty worrying time for everyone. [Laughs] For the music business, it was really awful. It hit us fairly hard, but the people it really hit were the crew guys, because it’s only just now that some of these festivals are coming back. All the guys who worked on Bluesfest and had that fall over right at the last minute, that was really awful, yeah.
I’ve had a listen to Evolution. Take this as the compliment that it’s intended as, but I hear it, and I can almost picture it as the soundtrack to a show like Underbelly. Would you ever consider contributing to a film score, or to work in TV?
Oh, for sure, yeah. These days, that’s one of the areas of revenue for a lot of writers, because you don’t get that much in royalties anymore, because no one buys anything anymore. [Laughs] They just listen to it on Spotify, and you don’t get a lot from that. We’d love that. I know what you mean. A couple of the songs in particular are quite noir-ish, and then there are other more fun things. There’s a real 70s and 80s vibe about it as well. So yeah, that’d be great!
Pictured: Luke Herbert, Matt Crawford, Marko Simec, Lizzie Mack, Murray Cook + Tony Mitchell - THE SOUL MOVERS
Photos courtesy of: Dani Hansen
Lizzie tells me that you were working with some of the guys from SHERBET.
Yeah. So the first band I ever saw, in 1973, was SHERBET. I lived in the country, and they were one of the few bands who really toured through there a lot. I lived in Orange, NSW. I was about twelve, I think, and they came through, so it’s kind of a full circle, because for this album, about three quarters of the songs were written with Garth, who was the keyboard player and songwriter in SHERBET. He co-wrote some of their big hits, like Summer Love and Howzat! Also, we had Tony Mitchell, who was the bass player in SHERBET, who also co-wrote a lot of the hits. He was playing bass on it. So yeah, a first it was a bit daunting for me, [laughs] because it was like my past was coming back to haunt me or something. It was really lovely, and it was great working with those guys, and I think, seeing SHERBET live was what put me on the road to actually playing music, or seeing music as a possibility for a career. Before then, I was into music, I loved lots of stuff. I grew up with THE BEATLES and all that sort of stuff. But this was the first time I took a lot of notice of an Australian band, because I guess I always thought musicians came from another land, you know? Another world, because most of them were American or English, but these guys were Australian – they were right there in front of me. I was so taken with it, and the whole idea of playing in front of people like that was like a big light bulb going off in my head. I kind of credit them for getting me on the path that I ended up on, so it was really nice to do this most recent album with those guys.
What were some of the other formative gig experiences for you? What were some of the best gigs that you’ve ever seen?
I saw AC/DC a couple of times in the 70s with Bon, and that was pretty amazing – one time was in Orange, when I was still living there. I moved to Sydney with my family when I was 16, and then I saw them again, in 1977 I think. The first time David Bowie came to Australia, about 1978, that’s still probably in my top three greatest shows ever. You know, I’ve been a big consumer of music, especially live music, but I remember when CDs were a thing and we were on tour, I’d end up with a suitcase full of CDs that I’d bought, and Greg once said to me, “Don’t you already own them all?” Like [I] owned all the CDs in the world. [Laughs] Even when I was on the road a lot with THE WIGGLES, I was going to see things overseas. That was really great. When we were in America, when we had days off … I remember we saw THE ROLLING STONES in Connecticut one time. Lots of other stuff. As you know, I was at the SPRING LOADED festival on Saturday, and I saw YOU AM I a few weeks ago, and other little bands. For me, live music is still really exciting, and I like to get amongst it.
What was the genesis of THE SOUL MOVERS? How did it first come about?
It actually existed before me. Lizzie refers to it as “SOUL MOVERS mk. 1.” She and Deniz Tek, who is the guitar player in RADIO BIRDMAN, were a couple. He wasn’t really aware of what a great singer she was, and she was just singing in the shower one time, and he came in and said, “Where did you learn to sing like that? We’ve got to get a band together!” He was a lover of soul music. He grew up in Detroit, so there’s THE STOOGES and MC5 side of Detroit, but also that’s were Motown came from. So anyway, they got that together, and within a week they wrote and then recorded an album, and that’s kind of how I came across them. I knew Lizzie a little bit, but, like Deniz, I didn’t know that she was such a great singer. I’d just see her at gigs. She’s this tall woman who kind of stood out, and often we’d be the tallest people at a gig! [Murray is 6’4”] So we’d sort of wave, and got to know each other that way. Then I got hold of the first SOUL MOVERS record called On The Inside, and I played it, and I was just blown away. I was like, “How did I not know that she was such a great singer?” I got in touch with her through Facebook, and said, “It would be really great to do something together.” … She said, “Well actually, the guy who has been playing guitar has gone overseas for a few months. Why don’t you come along?” It kind of just went from there. We all hit it off. Then it was kind of my idea – I said to Lizzie, “Let’s do this as THE SOUL MOVERS. We can play some of the songs from that album, and then write some new ones.” It just went from there. As it went on, it got a bit bigger, and it kind of took over our lives a bit more … Evolution is our third album together with this iteration of SOUL MOVERS. It’s been a great outlet for me too, because I was a little bit lost after THE WIGGLES, creatively. I was playing with lots of different people, but I was the side man, just playing guitar with them. THE SOUL MOVERS has become mine and Lizzie’s thing, and we do most of the writing together. It’s found a really special place in my heart, and my life.
Pictured: Lizzie Mack + Murray Cook - THE SOUL MOVERS
Photographer: Dani Hansen
Brace yourself. I’m about to make the most obvious comparison ever – I’m about to compare Murray Cook to Arnold Schwarzenegger …
[Laughs] Okay…
Here’s where I’m getting at. THE WIGGLES were the third biggest-selling [Australian] artist ever. You’ve essentially completely crushed the first act of your career, so like Arnie did with movies, you can now afford to do whatever you want. I feel that you never needed a band like THE SOUL MOVERS to be an enormous success. It wouldn’t have bothered you if they weren’t successful. Is that accurate?
Yeah, it is really. Because we’re older as well, we don’t expect to be the next chart-topping thing. Success for us can be quite modest; doing some good gigs, playing some festivals. But yeah, you’re right. For me, particularly, I still want to get it out there to as many people as we can, but I don’t feel that kind of compulsion that you might have when you’re younger – “Oh, this is our big shot.” We love what we do, but for us, making the music itself is the main reward. But then, getting it out there, no one does a record and that’s it. We love to get out there and play, and we’ve become a really good live band. I think some of the skills that I had from my previous incarnation, and also Lizzie was a teacher and she’s pretty outgoing, so we’re pretty good at getting the audience involved, which is not that far from what THE WIGGLES did! [Laughs] But yeah, you’re right. It’s something I love to do. I’m doing it for love, not for any great obsession with being successful.
How old were you when you became a father?
I was 34.
That was during the success of THE WIGGLES. How did that fit in with your career?
Family life? It was pretty difficult, actually. It’s funny – some bands talk about doing a tour, and they’ll do four shows up the east coast, because that’s just the way things are these days. In THE WIGGLES, we’d go off into regional areas for six weeks, and play five, six days a week, so that was kind of a bit hard for family life. We would take breaks, and when they were little, sometimes they would come away with us, depending on where we were going. Even once we started doing America, sometimes the family would come as well. I remember one tour we did, we hired an extra bus just for the family, and that was pretty cool. So yeah, my kids … I missed out on some parts of their lives, but when I was home, when we sometimes had a few weeks here and there, I could really be part of taking them to school and things. It’s like swings and roundabouts, I guess. The positive thing for them, I think, was that they got to travel quite a bit. I didn’t really go overseas until I was 23, but by the time they were 10, they’d been to America a few times. I remember my daughter, when she was quite young, saying, “I haven’t been to England for ages!” [Laughs]. She was about 8! It’s a different world! But yeah, it was really difficult, and that was part of the reason why I finished up in 2012 with touring with THE WIGGLES. Jeff [Fatt] had a few health issues at the time. He’s not too bad now, but he kind of felt that he couldn’t keep it up, so it just seemed like the right time to go. A big part of it was my family life, and just being with them a bit more.
As much as people can plan the future, what are the plans for the rest of the year?
Well, I guess for the rest of the year we do have quite a few plans. We’re going to play Adelaide for the first time. We haven’t been there. We’ve kind of neglected our South Australian friends quite a bit. We’ve got new management that we’re quite happy with. At the moment we’re having a little break from playing live, which has actually turned out really well, because our drummer has injured himself and is out of action for a few weeks anyway!
Pictured: Luke Herbert, Matt Crawford, Marko Simec, Lizzie Mack, Murray Cook + Tony Mitchell - THE SOUL MOVERS
Photo courtesy of: Dani Hansen
Evolution is out now!
